Dominic: A couple of years back I tried my hand at writing for the Call of Cthulhu role-playing game. One of the scenarios I submitted (which is now posted on Chris Davis’ RPGArchive) was slated for release in the Miskatonic Country sourcebook. Keith Herber wrote asking me to submit a second scenario to be posted in the same supplement ... but the whole deal, sadly, fell through.

Anyway, my submissions to the site apparently attracted Chris’ attention, and we began discussing the idea of online publication. He proposed a few ideas, I proposed a few ideas, and we eventually agreed on developing the Darwin’s World setting (which I had then been running through online play-by-email games) for a possible PDF product. And so here we are!

Q. Can you tell us about your game design experience?

Dominic: Well, like pretty much every other gamer out there (or so I imagine), I’ve been looking at games since the beginning and imagining a better way to execute the rules or refine the existing systems. I began designing homemade games when I was about seventeen years old, before focusing on composing short scenarios and adventures for existing games to use in my own campaigns for the past nine years. Darwin’s World was one of several games I played with before cementing a deal with Chris Davis to publish. Since then we’ve been watching how the game is received, how it works, and how it unfolds, and trying to tailor it to meet the needs and demands of our public. I like to think DW is very much a “people’s project”, that will continue to grow and evolve.

Chris: Ditto, especially the “people’s project” concept. If it weren’t for the fan feedback when it was initially released, Darwin’s World wouldn’t be the game it is today. It has come a long way in game balance and detail, all mostly due to fan suggestions and comments.

Chris: Well, with the expectation of WOTC (or perhaps Hasbro) seemingly having financial troubles, I think it’s great. The SRD and d20 license has sort of turn the industry back over to the fans. I don’t think RPGs are a really big industry. I don’t know that there’s a hug market for huge cooperate success. But, I see a lot of little guys getting into the industry. The GMs (like Dominic and myself) of the world seem to getting their chance to publish and legally contribute the gaming industry. It’s nice to see. I think WOTC did a great thing in the SRD and d20 license. I hope it works out for them in the long run.

Q. What other current or future projects are you involved with?

Dominic: I’m always working on something, but right now the focus is certainly Darwin’s World. Before RPGObjects picked up Darwin’s World for an RPG publication, I was running a series of play-by-email games over the Internet based on the DW setting. I am currently wrapping up the writing of the rules for the series’ third installment, which I hope to run both as a hobby and to help spread the word about the campaign setting.

Chris: Well, I have the RPGHost network of which I’m a partner, and the sites I personal own and manage: RPGArchive.com, OpenRPG.com, RPGRegistry.com, and DarwinRPG.com. Then there’s the actual OpenRPG project itself. As far as PDF publishing, we have several Darwin’s World books plan. While it hasn’t been announced yet, we have an oriental themed d20 adventure sourcebook in the works that I’m hoping to expand into a new line of d20 oriental themed supplements.

Dominic: Actually, I began DW with an entirely original system, one that was complex and maybe a bit too detailed. It was also pretty grim, gruesome, and bleak – but I like that in PA RPGs. Anyway, Chris and I felt that the existing d20 system was the best way to go to reach the widest possible audience. D20 already had the foundation, framework, and interest. It was a relatively simple task to adapt to d20.

Chris: I was planning to publish a d20-based setting. So it wasn’t a matter of finding a system for the setting, but rather finding of a non-fantasy setting for d20.

Dominic: Certainly. As I said before, I think d20 is familiar to most existing gamers, and it is already quite generic, making it easy to adapt material and settings to. The Dungeon Master’s Guide has simple guidelines for futuristic settings, and I took a lot of the advice presented there to heart when designing DW.

Chris: Ditto.

Dominic: Well, using one system does streamline everything, and I think it helps bring a sense of “community” to the various worlds and settings everyone out there is imagining and working on. That way we have everyone openly discussing the pros and cons, and the designers are closer to feeling the pulse of the industry than ever before. I have to admit, though, that while using the d20 system has certainly made DW as successful as it is, I think I miss the many unique systems that used to be out on the market. Sometimes you get a little tired of planning your feats or lugging around five separate rulebooks, and just want something simple. Hey, hand me my copy of pocket Car Wars!

Chris: I really like the concept of the OGL and the fact that the SRD is released under it. I don’t like reinventing the wheel; I just want to tweak it. From a publishing perspective, the d20 license is fabulous. It’s like getting a ton of free marketing, so I’m very happy with the concept and the generosity of WOTC for doing it. Also, as a GM, I really like the fact there’s a ton of content out there that doesn’t require a ton of conversion to utilize.

Chris: Again, I think it’s great. I also think it clears up some legal issues regarding the copyrighting or patenting of game mechanics. I’m a huge supporter of open source software as well, and the OGL is similar (but not the same), to that concept. I like the freedom to use rules other people have developed and play tested. In a sense, the cream rises to the top. In the end, we end up with a better set of publicly available rules for RPGs.

Chris: Well, the main way it helps us is that there’s a ton of OGL out there we can utilize and compare too. I don’t like doing more work than I have too, and the OGL allows RPG developers to share game mechanics while still protecting their product lines.

Q. What is it about this setting (Post WWW III) that hold so much interest for you?

Dominic: I’ve been interested in the post-apocalyptic setting since I was a kid. I grew up on the thought provoking, social-commentary-style PA movies of the 1970s and 1980s. I think I mentioned this somewhere before, but I draw a lot of inspiration from movies – who doesn’t? A Boy and His Dog, Mad Max, Roadwarrior, Beyond Thunderdome, Night of the Comet, Omegaman, Planet of the Apes, the Postman, and the Terminator are all favorites of mine because they’re some of the only movies (outside of the often-maligned low-budget Italian cinema) that dares look at the post-holocaust setting. Of course, more contemporary sources like the game Fallout, or Wasteland, were also a big influence. But the grim, hopeless image of societal decay, portrayed by more serious classics, is equally fascinating for me because it’s both fantastic and remarkably real-to-life at the same time. Take movies like Clockwork Orange, Fahrenheit 451, 1984, Logan’s Run, and Soylent Green. People watch these movies, tongue in cheek, but many of the elements of that kind of future are already here with us. Sometimes it feels like we’re just a few steps away from that kind of social breakdown and apocalypse. It’s chilling. I love it. And I’ve tried to blend a lot of that into DW.

Chris: I think that pretty much sums up my feelings as well. There’s just something fascinating about a world after this one; a world where we are the Ancients.

Dominic: Definitely a labor of love, though from the beginning I may have had aspirations of making a living at it. Actually, writing is a great hobby that lets you not only explore the limits of your imagination, but develop it into something much deeper.

Chris: I don’t know that I could ever make a living exclusively on RPGs. It would be nice, and I certainly strive every day to make developing RPGs and RPG related projects a successful venture, but its not a high profit market, so its still a labor of love. However, so far it does seem worth the effort. It’s nice to get something in return for the hard work.

Dominic: Using the .pdf format concept saves printing costs. More importantly (in my opinion), it allows us to take in customer feedback, suggestions, and comments, and apply them to the game. By doing this all in PDF format, the DW community can benefit from its evolution without having to buy new editions or re-prints.

Chris: The Internet is my business. That’s what I know. PDF publishing is the reason I thought it could work. I never wanted to learn about the print publishing business. Once I started down the path of PDF publishing, I noticed that is has several advantages as Dominic outlined above. However, I think Darwin’s World will see print eventually.

Dominic: What I enjoy most about Darwin’s World is how we’ve attempted to be as “realistic” as possible, without outright saying “this is how it would be, period”. Every post-apocalyptic vision takes a little imagination, a suspension of belief. The way we have presented mutations for instance, or the various technologies, are all very true to life. The themes of the various factions are also believable; looking at the future, you might actually expect to see religions or behavior codes like these (if you know anything about them, think of the “cargo cults” of Micronesia).

Chris: It’s hard to pick just a few things. I really like the character background concept. The Scav is my favorite class and the foundation paladin is my favorite prestige class. But overall, I just really like the theme and tone of Darwin’s World. It’s very Doctor Strange Love or Fallout.

Q. Can you give us some background on your own personal campaign(s)?

Dominic: One of the more memorable short campaigns in which I was player involved my solitary Scav, living in the ruins of a gigantic, sprawling city, all alone. My GM created an atmosphere of devastation and desolation that will never be forgotten. My character was all by himself in an ashen, empty city. He spent his lonely days searching for scraps of food and puddles of water out of the sun, and avoiding the rare animal-life that wandered wild and free through the old cathedrals and city streets. My GM used ironic references to the past, describing chilling scenes that briefly but hauntingly cast light on what the final days of mankind, so long ago, had been like. For instance, my character wandered into an old elementary school (of course, he didn’t even know what it was), only to find a blasted classroom filled with brittle, diminutive skeletons crowded under their desks. Though as a player I was taken aback, my GM kept tempting me with “what useful trinkets might be locked in that colorful lunch pail – so what if it’s still being held by the hand of a centuries-dead six year-old?”

Chris: I’m not currently running a campaign, so when I play Darwin’s World, its single play testing sessions with my local gaming groups or online via OpenRPG. Right now, my main weekly campaign is Oriental Adventures.

Dominic: Seattle.

Chris: Minneapolis or online via OpenRPG. Q. In all of your campaigns, who is your favorite creature or character you have created?

Dominic: I have had quite a few fun characters. One of the more memorable ones was an education-model android that had been re-activated by unwitting meddlers (my fellow player characters), and sought to teach the mutant survivors of the world the “way things were”. Hoping to resurrect the society, laws, and government of the Ancients, he went about like a long-winded pacifist. It was fun to play.

Q. For the people not acquainted with DW, can you give us some of the background of the game and system mechanics involved?

Dominic: Essentially Darwin’s World is a game setting that takes place in a vaguely alternate Earth. We postulate that history took a different course after WWII, with the United States once more withdrawing into a contented slumber while the rest of the war-torn world was left to forge it’s own cruel and punishing destiny. Inevitably this would result in a growing margin between the United States and a fractured, ravaged, resource-starved world, ending in a brief but disastrous struggle for the last remaining resources. The result was a colossal war of nuclear, biological, and chemical strikes that devastated the old Earth.

Dominic: I think DW will be a success because it takes a good, hard look at an unfairly neglected genre, and gives it new life. It’s PDF format, and relatively low price (around $5 per book), also make it a value.

Chris: I agree with what Dominic stated, it’s a neglected genre, especially in d20. I also think its well support. We have a lot of adventure sourcebooks planned (even if their not officially announced), so there will be a lot of content for GMs. I’m hoping Darwin’s World will see print, which will only increase the exposure.

Chris: Our next release will be an adventure sourcebook, the Lost City. It details the legendary “Sunken City”, formerly Bakersfield, California, as described briefly in the Gazetteer. We have more planned and in the works. We will announce them soon.

Dominic: We make improvements all the time. The d20 system was written primarily for fantasy role-playing, which has a strong emphasis on tactical, melee combat. Darwin’s World is a futuristic setting where the traditional races and classes just wouldn’t fit. Rules had to be developed to make firearms lethal and yet balanced, and still more room had to be made for lasers, mass drivers, and other futuristic devices. Ranged combat is the emphasis, and with the setting largely desert or wasteland, range is often a more important consideration than maneuverability in combat. Scaling and balance have also been major issues from the beginning. Our readers have been great in giving us honest and frank comments, suggestions, and advice as to how they interpret the rules, how they’d work better, and what they’d like to see. This is all helping to refine and perfect DW, and make it something everyone had really contributed with.

Chris: Well, most releases are to address game mechanic issues that come up in our own campaigns or discussed on the Darwin’s World yahoo group. We also add additional art and content on occasion. Its important to note that d20 is evolving and new rules are release under the OGL every time a new d20 based product is released. So if we find something we think would work well in Darwin’s World, we will probably add it. That’s one of the beautiful things with PDFs, we can always release revised version. No errata. I hate errata. When d20 modern is released, I think we’ll see a lot of teaks and rules used from it in Darwin’s World.

Q. From the email list, I read that you are new to publishing.

Chris: Yep, see above.

Chris: The number one lesson I learned is to encourage criticism and thank people when they take the time to give it. Criticism is the only way your products get better as well as you learn to become a better game designer. I also learned to take your time. Release dates a nice, but its better to just take your time and do it right. That’s way I don’t put release dates on our books.

Chris: Yes. I would have put more eyes on the text. I found that one (or only a few) person couldn’t find all the error and mistakes. The editing on the initial release wasn’t as tight or clean as it should be. I truly believe each release has been better than the last, so we have improved a lot. Also, our layouts have improved since the first release. It took me a while to find the best layout. I’m proud of the look of our PDFs now. But I’m still learning of course.

Chris: RPGObjects is really just the business entity I created to place all my RPG projects under. At some point I releazied it was better from a marketing standpoint to have one name to indentify all my projects with. Hey, check out my new site: RPGObjects

Chris: Well, no one besides me full time. RPGObjects contracts people, like Dominic or V Shane.

Chris: RPGHost owns RPGNow. I have a close relationship with RPGHost. We are practically partners (but not in the legal sense). I helped develop that site and the concept. It was the main reason I decided to start DW. I knew I had someplace to sell it from. Smiles...

Chris: We’ll be a GenCon with RPGHost. We’ll be sharing the same booth. People should drop by and say Hi.

Q. Were you involved in any of the other games or projects that RPGObjects has produced?

Chris:(Stated above). Q. Where do you think the industry is heading in the future? What part will RPGObject will play?

Chris:Well, I’m hoping to expand into Computer Role Playing games. I am after all a software developer as well as game designer. That was one of the motivations for creating Darwin’s World. I want to build a setting for which to eventually develop computer games around.

Chris: I did. RPGHost helped as well.

Chris:Well, RPGObjects is a company built via the Internet. If there were no Internet, there would be no RPGObjects.

Chris:Huge to say the least. As with any hobby, the Internet has allowed people to build larger communities around that hobby. Also, for some reason RPGs seem to appeal to tech savvy people. So RPGs presence on the Internet is very predominate compared to other hobbies. Overall, I think it has given it a big boost.

Chris: I see the EDS market growing. I think print books are getting to expensive. It seems most hard covers are over $30 now. Adventures are over $10. Unless you are the type of GM that writes all your own adventures and settings, it’s getting to be an expensive hobby. I think EDS products are going to become an increasing attractive option for GMs when it comes to adventures and setting related sourcebooks.

Dominic: Yes and no. In making Darwin’s World we have made every attempt to try to preserve the existing d20 rules so that the game will be as easy to understand and play as possible. We also did this so that other d20 products and rules can be used with DW; for instance, new feats, new weapons, equipment, or other things scaled for use in Dungeons & Dragons can also be used in DW with little or no modification. I think that’s a huge bonus; simplicity and malleability are important, especially for “on-the-fly” players and GMs. But DW also contains a TON of new, unique material, from setting-specific aspects of character generation and game play that were overlooked in the D&D d20 Core Rules, to some intriguing new prestige classes applicable specifically to only a post-apocalyptic world. It also presents a virtual encyclopedia of futuristic weapons, armor, medicines, and other devices that leave swords and shields in the dust (as well they should, in my opinion). Traditional monsters like orcs and manticores don’t apply here; instead we have a supplement introducing monsters spawned by radiation.

"The Darwin's World graphics are (c)2002 Chris Davis, RPGObjects, and is reproduced here with permission. No permission for further distribution is granted." D20 and Gamma World are Registered Trademarks of WotC/TSR, Inc. All rights etc. Resevered. Any use of WotC/TSR's copyrighted material or trademarks in this page/interview should not be viewed as a challenge to those copyrights or trademarks.

Word file of Interview with Chris Davis and Dominic Covey